Boozman and me on Amtrak, Part 2

Here, as promised, is the second installment of my somewhat lengthy conversation with Congressman John Boozman. Scroll down for the first part. It is well worth your time.

The interesting, and unfortunate, part of this segment is that he believes the big lie that David Stockman was telling back in 1980. Amtrak trains do not, generally speaking, run anywhere near empty. My next assignment will be to gather some numbers on load factors. I think it is reasonable to say that the only way to increase Amtrak ridership is to create more seats for Amtrak passengers.

Boozman uses the word “efficient” with such ease and so frequently, that I wonder what he means. I am honestly wondering in what way Amtrak should be more efficient. This is not to say that it cannot do better, but how is it to be measured. And what about the Amtrak Review Commission, which I mentioned in the first part of this conversation. What ever happened to that? Republican opponents to Amtrak act as it the rail passenger corporation had not already been politically micromanaged to death. This proposed GAO study is completely useless. There have been all sorts of politically inspired boards and inquires. Amtrak changes top management about as much as the Little Rock School District. Might I be bold enough to sincerely suggest that one thing that might help Amtrak is to leave it alone for a couple of years. Over the past three presidents, Amtrak has been through wild swings in corporate vision.

Please notice how easily Boozman says that schedules could be changed. Now, I happen to be somebody that is not against some well conceived tinkering, but the current timetables are, so far as I know, soaked in the blood of weary negotiators. Amtrak has certainly not imposed timetalves on the “host” freight railroads.

My favorite part of this is how John Boozman seems to think that Amtrak out in Arkansas resembles the high speed, mostly on-time, Acela world of the northeast corridor.

He seems not to understand that supporting Amtrak is not necessarily about getting people out of automobiles. It is about having a choice for intermediate length trips.

Anyway, here is part two..

BOOZMAN: We’re getting ourselves in a situation. I’ve been all over the country looking at this. Many parts of the country, you just can’t build any more roads. There’s just no more (inaudible)

LYNCH: Which is a decent excuse for making some accommodation for passenger rail.

BOOZMAN: I agree. Mr. Oberstar, one of the first things he did, was go to France and look at high-speed rail I was on part of that trip.

LYNCH: But’ we’ve already spent. There won’t be any

BOOZMAN: I think that would be a great thing to look at.

LYNCH: Very easy to say politically ‘cause you know that it’s impossible.

BOOZMAN: I really don’t. I think. I think right now, Pat, it is impossible because we have been blessed. It has been impossible because Americans, wherever they live, and I drive into Washington every morning and I look around, my wife drives me in and lets me out, and I look around and there is one person in the car. It’s just the way it is. We’re a nation that loves their cars. The only thing we’ve found that really keeps people from driving as much is parking. If you don’t have any parking, they’re not gonna’ do it. That seems to be the limiting factor. And that’s really true when you go to Europe where gas is twice as much as here. Now, you can affect people’s behavior and they will go to smaller cars, and they will go go cars that get more miles per gallon, but it’s just hard to get them out of their automobiles. But like I said, don’t misunderstand. I’m not opposed to passenger at all, but what it needs more than anything is somehow for us to figure out how to get more people on there riding.

LYNCH: Well, you can’t put people in seats that don’t exist.

BOOZMAN: Well, I think you’ll find and I’ll be glad to look at the statistics. You know when you start, and I priced it, on several occasions around here, going to different cities, traveling by rail is expensive..

LYNCH: I agree.

BOOZMAN: It’s not a bargain.

LYNCH: That’s correct. How do you put people in seats that do not exist?

BOOZMAN: I’ve never had any trouble as far as getting a seat on a train.

LYNCH: Well, where have you tried to get a seat on a train?

BOOZMAN: From here to New York.

(I had some difficulty hearing the above response)

LYNCH: From Little Rock to New York?

BOOZMAN: No, from Washington.

LYNCH: Of course, they have 30 departures a day. In Little Rock, we have one north, one south.

BOOZMAN: And it’s full?

LYNCH: Well, that’s a tricky question. If someone, for example, reserves a seat from Springfield, Illinois to San Antonio that seat is full to San Antonio, but if that car goes on to Los Angeles, that seat is available at San Antonio, but may be booked by somebody who buys it in El Paso. So, from San Antonio to El Paso that seat may be empty. There are some vagaries in it, but I think you would find the load capacity on Amtrak trains is fairly good. The idea that people don’t ride the train is just wrong. And God knows they do everything they can to make it inconvenient . The trains are out there in a freight railroad gridlock that we both recognize is a near catastrophe. I think ..

BOOZMAN: And again, I’ll be glad to help with the .. but I really think pretty close to them, I really get along fine with the Amtrak people. I talk to them periodically , because I am on the committee, and try to move things along, but I think I’ve got a good relationship, but they have not, in the meetings I’ve had, those. That’s not something they’ve mentioned to me. But, again, I guess what I’m saying, Pat, and I just want you to know, that it is something that really does all work together, and I’m really not a guy that .. I believe very strongly in getting people off the roads and getting them into mass transit. We really are working to do that, but I do think it’s OK to have this efficient system if you can.

You know, you’re right, in the sense that we don’t want to do anything that makes the Amtrak train any less efficient than it is. Just the opposite, so I would not be in favor of anything, as far as that. But I’m just talking about looking at schedules . If the train could run at, instead of 7 o’clock, run it at 6:45 or 5 after. What I’m saying, just things along that line. And then the other thing is look at making sure, if you’ve got somebody with authority to clean the system out, making sure that the commercial traffic, you know the pressures they’ve got, that they’re not unduly causing problems.

But I know we’ve got a lot of people now that, and don’t get me wrong this is not a response to that at all but, I hear all these problems of Amtrak, the shippers, I get a little frustrated because one of the most important things are our rivers. If we can shift more traffic on to our barges. One of the things I’ve worked really hard on is trying to get the Arkansas River from an 8 foot channel down to 12 feet. 80% of it is 12 foot now, In fact, even more than that now because they’ve worked on it. But in doing that you can load a barge up 40% more and it just sinks a little bit lower in the water. Those are the things that really are important. So, it’s just a matter of trying to get it all done.

I just didn’t want you to misunderstand. I appreciate you. I appreciate your columns. I’m not being critical at all. I just wanted to tell you my side of what we are trying to get done.

I really am, especially with the Arkansas transit system, and I think you’re alluding to this Pat, in the sense that, in Arkansas, with ridership on buses, that transit system, and probably train traffic too, you have a group of people, that’s the only form of transportation they can take. And if that single mom can’t get to work, or the elderly person, if the bus won’t come pick her up, we’re talking about institutionalizing her. And that’s going to cost society a lot more money than a transit authority subsidy.

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Tuesday morning summary

The Arkansas State Police has agreed to share with the FBI information from an investigation into the fatal shooting of a 12-year-old boy Friday by a West Memphis police officer, in case the federal agency decides to conduct a civil rights investigation into the death.

The Arkansas Senate’s leader and his designated successor, who are both Democrats, are hosting a campaign fundraiser Wednesday for Sen. Gilbert Baker of Conway, who is the former chairman of the state Republican Party. It will be held at the Poultry Federation office in Little Rock.

Behind locked doors, without notifying the media and without a quorum, the Helena-West Helena Landfill Commission met and approved some issues dealing with items at the Regional Landfill. Michelle Page of the Daily World reports that doors to the front and side of the municipal building were locked, allowing limited access to the public. Entry was gained to the meeting through the police department.

A new Hino Motors plant scheduled to open in November in West Virginia is not the plant Arkansas has hoped to lure to Marion, an economic development official said Monday.

In its second major energy announcement this year, Tyson Foods Inc. said Monday that it would spend $75 million to help build a synthetic fuels plant to power diesel cars and high-performance military jets.

Petrohawk Energy Corp. announced that it has entered into a definitive agreement to acquire about 32,500 net acres in the Fayetteville Shale, primarily in Van Buren County.

A Little Rock lawyer was named as a special justice of the state Supreme Court to consider a case challenging the constitutionality of local votes that legalized expanded gambling at Arkansas’ two pari-mutuel race tracks. Gov. Mike Beebe named Jim Jackson to replace Justice Robert Brown, who disqualified himself from the case,

Rainbow Family National Gathering attendees have begun to arrive on the Ozark National Forest in Arkansas. The event, which runs from July 1-7, draws thousands of people from all parts of the country and all walks of life. 10,000 may attend this year’s event.

A judge dropped a sexual assault charge against the man accused of having a sexual relationship with a 15 year old girl. Raul Torres of Bella Vista has been in jail since January, after the girl told police they had an ongoing sexual relationship. At the opening of a jury trial, Benton County Senior Circuit Judge Tom Keith declared a mistrial after the girl testified she lied to police and never had sex with the defendant.

Questions about whether Little Rock School Board President Katherine Mitchell improperly received payments from her school district are now under investigation by the Pulaski County sheriff ’s office at the request of Prosecuting Attorney Larry Jegley.

Pulaski County Circuit Judge Mary Spencer McGowan is expected to decide today when former comptroller Ron Quillin’s e-mail correspondence should be turned over to the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. But the judge might not have the last word on when the messages will be released.

The American Lung Association of Arkansas plans to split from the national organization and become an independent organization called Arkansas Respiratory Health Association, board members said Monday. The change comes as the national association consolidates the management of its chapters, a move Arkansas board members feared would leave the state with little control over Arkansas donations.

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Congressman Boozman and me, everything you ever wanted to know about Amtrak

Congressman Boozman called this afternoon. The topic was today’s Democrat-Gazette column on his Amtrak proposal. We talked for 33 minutes. He was courteous, so I will expect your discussion to reflect the same spirit.

These are portions of our conversation. You should not read this as a press release. We talked. The language is conversational, so no nitpicking his grammar or mine. I will concede that Congressman Boozman must have used the word “efficient” 200 times.

If you wish to quote, please give proper attribution: “Freelance writer Pat Lynch of Little Rock”

The Congressman and I have a real difference of opinions about Amtrak and the rights it receives on “host” freight railroads, but we started off on a note of agreement. He is very candid. I wonder if the truckers and highway lobby have heard him talk this way.

It’s really become critical for the rails, the highways, and then the rivers – the dams and locks – all of that to work together, And as you know, I mean, we’re at the point, in most parts of the country, you physically can’t build any more roads. The rail is at full capacity.

We discussed his proposal, which would eliminate Amtrak’s preferential access rights to freight lines unless the U.S. Secretary of Transportation first certifies that implementation of those rights would not cause increased highway congestion, fossil fuel usage, air pollution or greenhouse gas emissions. Boozman explained himself, or he tried to.

I wasn’t doing anything at all trying to hurt Amtrak. Amtrak has a preferential exemption that goes back to the 1970’s, and so as a result of that, no matter what when they’re in the middle of the country, I specifically took out the northeast because they’re much more efficient there and their trains are more efficient, you know their passenger service is more efficient, the whole bit. Took out the northeast corridor so we wouldn’t be dealing with that and just said..what we’re trying to do is to make it such that Amtrak and the commercial service get together and figure out what is the most efficient use of the train track. Not, again, to diminish Amtrak at all.

History buffs know that passenger trains carrying mail, which would have been the case for most Amtrak trains in the 70’s, have received priority treatment for many years, probably to the early 1900’s. Back in the day, railroads were serous abou the United States mail. The bottom line is that it is not a new things for passenger trains to get moved ahead of freight. Amtrak no longer carries mail, so far as I know.

I guess he knows that Amtrak owns the northeast corridor from Washington to Boston.

But it shouldn’t be that, just because I’m Amtrak and I want to run through a certain area, kind of like if you were working on the highway and you wanted to work at the busiest time of the day, you know that sort of thing, Just to look at that, and then again work out a system, the most efficient. We had several of the trucking companies, last year I’m talking about, because of the high price of fuel, they went in through GPS and looked at their routes, and were able really just through rerouting, running the most efficient route they were able to cut fuel costs in the neighborhood of 25%. So these are things that just haven’t been looked at in decades. So that’s what it was all about.

Sorry, sir. I’ll bet the congressman voted “aye” for the Amtrak Reform and Accountability Act of 1997. It worked well into the current president’s term. For all I know, it may still be in existence. Amtrak is been politicized almost to death. Amtrak has been Congress’ favorite whipping boy since its’ inception in 1972.

Who is pulling Boozman’s chain? I think he is a sincere man who honestly think he is doing the right thing. You would have to be fairly intimate with the issues not to be taken in. There may be some clues in his continued references to “on time delivery.” That phrase must come from somewhere. Help me out.

The thing that is fueling this is a thing called “on time delivery” and the people like Wal Mart, the people who are very very efficient, a few years ago, made it such that when you went into a Target or a Wal Mart or just about anyplace, and you buy a product, that goes from the computer, ya’ know where they mark it up, into a distribution center, and instead of having a warehouse, and Little Rock is full of old warehouses that are sitting there empty, instead of having those warehouses, it’s very efficient, you just get a few of those products. So the new warehouses are the trucks on the road and our trains. And so they’re not only hauling that, they’re hauling toothpaste – you name it, and, like I said, the rail system is becoming a huge part of the “on time delivery.” I used to think of trains like, you got coal and stuff, but that’s really not true anymore. The train has really become very very efficient. So they’re hauling that stuff. They’re hauling a lot of produce. They’re hauling everything, and like I said, that’s another thing that’s added to the problem is that.

Here is a curious quote. Wonder who the “members” are? Perhaps they will be so proud, they will self-identify.

I had several people that were in the northeast corridor, members say to me “you need to increase, you need to do the northeast. And these were people who were very supportive of Amtrak.

Maybe he doesn’t know that Amtrak owns the northeast corridor and there are almost no freight trains on it anyway.

Our bus transit, if you will look at the chart, there was a chart that came out, by one of the environmental groups. They looked at car travel, looked at air travel, looked at train travel and bus travel. And air of off the scale so far as two people flying on a plane. It’s very very much as far as using energy. Bus and car is really very similar. The other thing that does very very well is bus travel. I’ve been a big advocate of trying to get people on buses. But we don’t have a lot of people on buses, but it is so important because the people that are on buses are the elderly. That, if they weren’t riding the a bus, would be in a rest home because they can’t get out and buy their groceries, go to the doctor. And single moms, things like that.

You mentioned things Amtrak needs, besides equipment, I wouldn’t argue with any of those things, but what Amtrak desperately needs are passengers, and to be honest, I just don’t know the answer to that. We desperately need, for our transit authorities in Arkansas more bus ridership, which would help greatly. But people are just very very resistant. Even here in Washington, the Metro’s very popular. They’re just very resistant to riding buses for some reason.

It may be that some of us are larger than pygmies, but that would only be a guess why inter-city buses are not more popular. Yeah, Boozman does drift a bit between Amtrak and local transit.

He got right into today’s column in the Democrat-Gazette. I suggested Amtrak needed more equipment in which to carry more passengers. He was not buying.

They desperately need a couple of things. One of the things that government does so badly is that a lot of our .. right now, Pat, if you look at your broadcasting equipment, if you look at any newspaper business or whatever, I suspect the way the type is set, this and that, you look at any of that stuff in the last 10 or 15 years, there’s been a tremendous amount of change, a tremendous amount of technological improvement. The problem is much of government, much of what we do up here, our agencies and things, they’re still doing it the same way they were doing it at the turn of the century. Somebody was telling me the other day that just until recently our visas were done on Windows 95. We’re just very very far behind, and so what we need to do, we need to look at these things, Again, not in the sense of trying to punish, displace, or whatever, but to make more efficient. We need efficiencies, so, yeah I would be interested in looking and seeing if we needed more whatever – more routes, this and that, if hat would make it more efficient. If they needed more equipment.

Efficiencies? That’s what Amtrak needs. Another round of budget cuts.

I do know the ridership throughout the continental United States is not very great. I would be a guy would be amenable to whatever. I’m a guy really trying to figure out, with “on time delivery” and a good economy, how do we get people, how do we get things were they ought to be. What’s the most efficient? How do we get the coal into the barges, if it can be done that way – as opposed to the other, and maybe the other products on the trains.

I asked about the railroad capacity issue. Today’s column cast that as the major issue facing rail carriers.

I agree with you completely and I am co-sponsor or a bill that gives a pretty massive tax credit to railroads, to trains, to build.

Then we had a little exchange. You figure it our for yourself.

LYNCH: And that is why I believe Amtrak should participate in improvements to the infrastructure…

BOOZMAN: It would be like all of us riding along and the police , with the siren, just all the time running down to pull you over, whether it’s crowded or not crowded. All I’m saying is that if you have the potential, if you have a crowded area, not that Amtrak shouldn’t take precedence, is that somebody look and say “well, let’s kinda’ schedule this here and schedule that there, and we’ll make it run most efficient.

LYNCH: You don’t actually believe, as a practical matter, that Union Pacific or BNSF, and I’m not painting them as corporate criminals, but you don’t actually believe that they actually give Amtrak preferential dispatching?

BOOZMAN: How do you mean?

LYNCH: In other words, that Amtrak would be somehow, could somehow, be moved ahead of freight trains that are already stopped on the main line, dead on their track?

BOOZMAN: Oh, they do for sure. Amtrak has preferential (audio interruption).

LYNCH: But you don’t believe, practically, that that happens?

BOOZMAN: Yeah, for sure I do.

LYNCH: Oh, boy.

BOOZMAN: I surely do.

LYNCH: I find it hard to imagine that you would belive that.I mean, considering that Amtrak trains, the Sunset is frequently as late as 12 to 16 hours into either New Orleans or Los Angeles, I mean they’re certainly not running that kind of on time performance getting preferential dispatching. I mean, Amtrak is stuck in the same gridlock with the freight trains.

BOOZMAN: But they really do, Pat. They really do. They get. I don’t know. Again, this couldn’t happen, but if two of them started out at the same time, then Amtrak would get there first. Because they do get preferential dispatching. And that’s really what all this is about.

LYNCH: Boy, I think that’s an interesting outlook. I think you’ve been sadly deceived, but I guess if that’s what you believe, that’s what you believe.

BOOZMAN: Well, it’s. Can you send me – Ya’ know I’m part of the deal. I’ve explained to you about “on time delivery, “ the fact that – whatever I’ve explained to you – that I’m trying to do something about the infrastructure, the tax credit, this and that, how all this works together – Can you send me a document that says that – are you just telling me what you think or are you telling me something that you based it on?

LYNCH: Well, I guess we just have a difference of opinion.

BOOZMAN: Well, that’s not an opinion.

LYNCH: I mean, well, you’re terribly

BOOZMAN: Pat, do me a favor.

LYNCH: Alright.

BOOZMAN: Now, listen. We had a discussion in the hearing, OK, Back and forth about whatever. You’ll be able to get the, in fact we’ll get it for you and send it to you, the transcript of that thing. Nobody in the course of that, and it was a great discussion about Amtrak, it wasn’t slamming. It was, how do we fix this thing? Mr. Oberstar, who knows more about this than anybody in the world, he’s been here a long long time, he’s a good guy, Democrat from Minnesota , a good guy, nobody took the course of action saying they weren’t getting preferential treatment. They do get preferential treatment.

LYNCH: It could be that the railroad is so crowded that it’s nothing but a moot point and a semantic difference because the preferential treatment makes you 12 hours late instead of 20 hours late.

BOOZMAN: And I’m really not talking about areas like that. Somebody was teling me the other day, and again, this was after I’d done this, somebody told me there are areas of the country where you might not have any of that going on, Pat. But, regardless, even though trains have to stop, Amtrak does get preferential treatment. This is just an effort to look at it, sort it out. I’m not … I guess the other thing … you have no reason to think that I’m somehow undoing, in a nefarious kind of way to get rid of Amtrak. That’s totally ridiculous.

He then went off on his support for local transit buses, with which I completely agree.

Stay tuned for more tomorrow.

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